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Real Virtue Fears God, Not Men

That, I believe, is the sum and substance of Obama's speech. Recent Christian apologists like Ravi Zacharias insist that one of the proofs that Christianity is the only true and correct world view is that the Bible is remarkable in its consistency. Given that assertion, then your point about Jesus quotes is specious since the comparison must include the acts described in the Old Testament as well. This is how democracy works. Do you prefer the "convert or die" approach of Islam? To claim that liberals like Pope Francis hate Christianity is yet another conspiracy theory from the Right which is beyond nuts.

You are posing to me a false dichotomouns choice. It should be clear to you in a democracy neither is preferred. Since you asked the Q of me ad hominem, My answer is I prefer to be left alone to choose what my mind and my heart choose, without the interference of a meddling body.

If this without meddling body is too hard for you to grasp, Would you also in the name of peaceful persuasion and how democracy works that I ring your doorbell with a cohort every day for 10 weeks to tell you your soul need be saved and I have the key to the means to save it? That what I believe is better than what you believe?

The above is just returning the same Q you asked me. In a democracy, things work in both directions. I am done with this thread. I have a sense that you are going to tell me you creed is better than my creed and I will hear no end of it. FYI, I don't play the game of whose phallus is bigger and decline engaging with anyone who does.

Cowards Among the Christians

Thank you for your brilliant Q which gave me a chance to return the same. Easy does it. Very peaceful.

As far as I am concerned, bearing testimony by one, and as all my archived posts in this column proved, I love Pope Francis, Father Lung, some of the nuns who were my teachers in grade school, the Christians professors I had in college, the devout Irish Catholic mentor I had in grad school, the numerous Catholic and Protestant friends I have professionally and socially Southern Methodist, Baptist, Prystebyterian, Episcopalean, Unitarian to name the denominations they represent - they all are my dear friends.

They cherish my friendship and I do theirs. I think the wrong kind of Christians project the hatred inside them and think they are hated. Something like in American Football, the best defense if an offense. They come in a room, and they offend you first. They nurture a paraonoia, they accuse before being accused, wherever the go, they leave the putird odor of twisted teachings of Christ. The scene is no less than is macabre. In other words, once again using the labels of Left, Right, Liberal, Conservative to confound, confuse, and obfuscate a serious dialogue about spiritual matters that go to people's private religious beliefs.

To convert Ha! It never ceases to startle what you can find on TE. Love the line you wrote about conspiracy theory being spun and promulgated day-in day-out by nuts, un-tasty and un-expeditious nuts. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Now here's a commentater for whom I would request the Economist to develop an "unrecommend" button for So you think in the last years christianity came to Americas with Peace?? Sorry, I do not see many natuve Americans to ask their opinion. The simple truth is, Christians, Muslims and Jews they believe in the same God but eachbine thinks itbis superior tobthe other ones.

I think the tragedy is that the only people who can summon the will to correctly recognize and combat the threat of Islamists are our own Christian fundamentalists and right wing nutjobs. I wish it were secular liberals who would do assume that role but when groups like Unite Against Fascism hold hands with the Islamists with signboards saying "We are all Hezbollah", when they have proven Islamists on their governing boards.. I have lost all faith in their willingness to fight against Islamic fundamentalism - partly driven by a deep fear of seeming to be racist and in the case of the far left, driven by their hatred of capitalism and America which runs so deep, they think of the enemy's enemy as their friend - the irony being that every value that these liberals hold from secularism, women's rights and freedom of speech, even democracy A war of the nutbags on both sides would be tragic, but that seems to be the most likely scenario.

Cowardly Christians Will NOT be Saved

Secular liberals need urgently to have the courage of conviction to back their professed values - which they do so enthusiastically against the white Christian right - if that ground is not to be occupied by Christian fundamentalists. To say that the violence committed by ISIS or any other muslim extremist group is in line with core muslim beliefs is a grossly false and ignorant claim.

The religion of Islam is not at all at fault, which becomes apparent upon doing any research on the beliefs and daily practices it encourages. Instead, a horrible misinterpretation of religious teachings by a tiny minority of the most popular religion in the world is at fault. Western liberals the majority of which are christian and thus clearly don't hate christianity don't think other religions are as bad as Islam, or that any religions are bad. They think that extremists that claim allegiance to religious beliefs to justify horrible acts, regardless of religion, are bad.

That's the only message Obama was trying to express.


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CnKQ7pSia6, Thanks for your reply. And for agreeing with the bit you quoted that I wrote. I, in turn, agree with this bit that you wrote: "A war of the nutbags on both sides would be tragic, but that seems to be the most likely scenario. Now this:. I am not sure I am understanding everything you wrote in your second paragraph.


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If, going by your conclusion, you are saying Secularists should be the people to lead a kind of movement against Fundamentalists, then I would say Secularists should not. One side calls them infidels and cuts their heads off.

The other side calls them heathens and harasses the jesus double entendre out of them by running after them to save their soul, no matter how much and how clearly it is indicated the person's soul declines to be saved. Why should any secularist get involved in this most unseemly predicament? Why doesn't this secularist go see a different movie. A cheaper one. And one with no hassle. It's their war. Mind you, as far as I am concerned, their domestic war, and they have been at it for a thousand years and more and still at it. The only identity they have, the only thing that make them feel they are not dead.

So let them go at it. It is no business of any outsider, someone not "in the family". Besides, there is a distinct possibility they will fight themselves to extinction. I personally wouldn't lift a finger. Call me coward. The biggest coward you have ever seen. I have better business to attend to. Incorrect actually, "Nut" implies their evil is not intentional, "scum" asserts their evil is totally intentional.

At law, this distinction is critical. It qualify both of them to be each other's executioner. I note Erasmus has up to now devoted literally dozens of articles on Islam and raises issues concerning the ills and evil of radicalism and fundamentalism in Islam.

This article is the first of its kind addressing the same radicalism and fundamenatlism in Christianity, perhaps in part stimulated or inspired by the President's speech.

The Cowardice of Christian Niceness - Beliefs of the Heart

Another synapse many phallically-inclined Christians have is when you point out something about them they don't want to look at e. In the context of conversations on religions, changing the subject is easily achieved by shifting any extant attention to another religion, here, the same snot that rolls down Islam's nose. So now we may expect to read more of the same complaints against Islam, even though this article is about Christians, has the heading of Christians, and dozens previous articles have previously been devoted to Islam.

I suppose the shifting is done in the hope of successfully manufacturing the impression that either the Presidnet or anyone who talks about the ills and evil in the perversed form of Christianity were condoning the stuff done by extremist and fundamentalists in Isalm.

That is the level of discourse phallically-obsessed "Christians" bring to any discussion. Change the subject. When they can't and won't see their wrong, they shift to someone's else wrong, in the hope your intelligence can be thus innocuously removed. Another thing they say Jesus taught. Firstly this article clearly addresses zealotry in other religions in comparison to Islam. This isn't a piece written say on Christian opposition to gay marriage or Hindu fundamentalists in India. If it were, your criticism would be bang on target because it would be a piece without any mention or relation to Islam.

But it clearly is not. So yes, bringing up Islam is very valid then because that horse has been put into the race by the author and Obama's speech. But nobody says that they are immune from evil. It is a straw man erected by the author. They simply aren't. To pretend that it is as easy to convince a man to become a suicide bomber by using say Jainism for example, where the absolute central precept is non-violence - as it is by using Islam, is to betray a profound ignorance of the precepts of these religions. To say that it is equally easy to justify rape and murder by using the example of Christ as it is by using that of Muhammad is to show a lack of knowledge about the religious texts that describe the lives and deeds of these men.

And to say that a religion whose followers in major numbers oppose abortion to one whose followers in major numbers demand the death of an apostate is to lose a sense of proportion. It is like comparing baseball and kick boxing. No player of either sport is immune from injury.